So I watched Joker 2 again last night. Despite not feeling up for such a depressing film, I wanted to catch it in cinema a second time before it disappears (which it will — very soon).
I’m glad I did because it held up magnificently to a second viewing. First time around was such an emotional rollercoaster that I missed a lot of the nuance — in what in essentially a deep-dive character drama.
Anyhow, second time around, with more detachment, I could enjoy how well written the characters and dialogue were. “Trauma informed” is the phrase that comes to mind, in that the film represents well how unhealed trauma shapes a person’s relationships — then you get two traumatised people in love with each other …. folie à deux.
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Couldn’t resist making a few notes as I watched it, which I’ll share here. Unedited raw brain dump, written while in the cinema / SPOILERS :
Joker 2
She puts the make up on him. Everyone wants him to be the joker character in some way — and reward him for it, punish him if he doesn’t. Except for his lawyer, who wants him to be a different version of himself -- one that he doesn't relate to. She doesn't punish him for not complying, though:
The only one who is trying to act in his best interests is his lawyer.
He abandons her because he can’t understand what it is to be really cared for.
Build a mountain. How easy he is to dangle carrots in front of, how small his dreams are that he can discard them for nothing — or rather, the feeling of being loved.
She imposes that he be Joker as a condition of her love.
Does his lawyer respect who his is?
« You’re just like everyone else » …
Still a lot of anger inside. That’s who the joker allows him to connect with because he cannot as Arthur.
Everyone loves Arthur the spectacle … they can shape him to what they want. He’s a vulnerable person who lacks agency. Which is reflected in how the only time he can express himself and be recognised is when he does horrible things that are not authentically him. Or are they?
He becomes the VIP for being Joker. He gets treated better and actually seen. The only human warmth he receives from characters comes from being Joker.
He does Richard Nixon fingers for the crowd on his first Joker court appearance.
« When the villain is mean — that’s entertainment. » A line played very well by Lady Gaga outside the courthouse. Seems to be a moment of self-awareness that she is the villain.
The foreshadowing in this film is off the hook. Extremely well done. There is so much ambiguity beyond the superficial presentation … visible in colour hunting, the actors performances etc.
His lawyer is good and the insanity defence would’ve worked. It’s clear how impactful her approach is in the jury.
Gaga uses the media to usurp his lawyer … it’s her coup de grace. She’s speaking to Joker the whole time.
I know what it’s like to love somebody. But you can’t trust a word she says.
Like a conversation between a parent and a child because that’s exactly how he views love … in a childish way.
“Now look who is making it all about themselves.”
“I just wanted you to like me” = I lied to you because I love you so much.
She’s the villain of the film, and the whole plot for her is about grooming him first and then driving him away from his lawyer — the one person in the world who actually has his best interests at heart.
The lawyer is interesting because she doesn’t want to know the real Arthur. She is invested so much in the idea that he has a split personality, that she forces it upon him. She doesn’t love or see him, but she does at least have his interests in her mind. No one else does.
Arthur agrees with his old neighbour when she says that if she had called the police when she first felt he was dangerous, then those people wouldn’t have been killed. It rattles him because … he is always unseen. It’s the painful story of his life. No one ever does what they should towards him.
When his neighbour speaks about his mother, joker starts remembering how his mother’s lack of appreciation for his dreams has impacted his lire.
He can’t stand the pain of what is coming up in the trial; so he welcomes back to Joker to escape. Which is exactly what his mother said he does.
After he becomes joker, Gaga easily manages a private visit with him. Indicating that … perhaps she could have always done so, had she wanted? Had his lawyer preventing her from doing so?
There is a lot of ambiguity about her intentions.
His inappropriate behaviour is like how a child’s naughty behaviour is learned + encouraged by peers. Very juvenile and mirrors what happened to me and many children in school.
He’s properly heartbroken that puddles didn’t see Jokers television appearance. His old friend.
Everyone only sees certain parts of Arthur’s personality — they relate to only one part and hate or ignore the others.
You are tugging at my heartstrings Gary
You were the only one that was nice to me… he realises the same is true of him.
It’s interesting how much more effort she puts into building the joker myth when it is most at danger — she probably recognises how shaken he was by the Gary interview. She recognises how fragile her control is on him.
When the guards are about to rape him, he tells them jokes — not to provoke them, but as a fawning défense. He thinks if he tells them a joke, they will be nice to him. He jokes about them looking like they’re about to rape him. He knows what is coming.
Dropping the joker is a heroic thing to do.
But had things held up a bit longer — not been raped by the guards — he could’ve kept up the joker act and gotten away with it.
“I just want to start a new life” — that’s what it’s always been about.
He didn’t choose the heroic road, he was just too shattered to keep up Joker. He didn’t sacrifice himself, so much as give up.
His voice mail prevents her from killing herself. Folié à deux. She is in it for life with Joker. She doesn’t love him, but she is major committed to who she wants him to be.
His tendency to laugh when confronted to its pain is an interesting metaphoric parallel to the clown make up. A happy face disguise hiding a frown.
His dreams, in which he imagines gags shooting himself in the stomach. Or killing himself. He knows it’ll be both of them that kill him. In bjs gut, but his mind does not want to accept it.
He is such a people pleaser !!!!
(No wonder I relate to him)
Beginning foreshadows the plot so well. The shaving scene, he is so vulnerable — completely at the mercy of their good graces. He doesn’t just want the guards to like him, he needs it. He feels emotionally hurt whenever there is a moment in which he realises they don’t like him.
When he escapes from court house, his make up is there, but barely. Visual metaphor … there is still a chance he will reassume the joker — if she will be on his side.
But she won’t.
Folie à deux.
If she’s not in it anymore, he dies.
“I cannot live without you.”
The movie is full of questions about agency. To what extent Arthur actually has any agency over his own life and decisions.
How when he is stabbed, he flashes back to the fantasy he had about her killing him — because that’s how he feels has happened — and he is singing about how much he loves her and she is touched by it because she she’s how beautiful his feelings for her are.
That’s what he still wants most if all in life as he dies — to be seen and loved, even by someone who has killed him.
He people pleases for two reasons:
1. Because he wants people to give him approval
2. As a défense against dangerous people
Usually he is doing both, but sometimes it is just one.
So I watched Joker 2 again last night. Despite not feeling up for such a depressing film, I wanted to catch it in cinema a second time before it disappears (which it will — very soon).
I’m glad I did because it held up magnificently to a second viewing. First time around was such an emotional rollercoaster that I missed a lot of the nuance — in what in essentially a deep-dive character drama.
Anyhow, second time around, with more detachment, I could enjoy how well written the characters and dialogue were. “Trauma informed” is the phrase that comes to mind, in that the film represents well how unhealed trauma shapes a person’s relationships — then you get two traumatised people in love with each other …. folie à deux.
---
Couldn’t resist making a few notes as I watched it, which I’ll share here. Unedited raw brain dump, written while in the cinema / SPOILERS :
Joker 2
She puts the make up on him. Everyone wants him to be the joker character in some way — and reward him for it, punish him if he doesn’t. Except for his lawyer, who wants him to be a different version of himself -- one that he doesn't relate to. She doesn't punish him for not complying, though:
The only one who is trying to act in his best interests is his lawyer.
He abandons her because he can’t understand what it is to be really cared for.
Build a mountain. How easy he is to dangle carrots in front of, how small his dreams are that he can discard them for nothing — or rather, the feeling of being loved.
She imposes that he be Joker as a condition of her love.
Does his lawyer respect who his is?
« You’re just like everyone else » …
Still a lot of anger inside. That’s who the joker allows him to connect with because he cannot as Arthur.
Everyone loves Arthur the spectacle … they can shape him to what they want. He’s a vulnerable person who lacks agency. Which is reflected in how the only time he can express himself and be recognised is when he does horrible things that are not authentically him. Or are they?
He becomes the VIP for being Joker. He gets treated better and actually seen. The only human warmth he receives from characters comes from being Joker.
He does Richard Nixon fingers for the crowd on his first Joker court appearance.
« When the villain is mean — that’s entertainment. » A line played very well by Lady Gaga outside the courthouse. Seems to be a moment of self-awareness that she is the villain.
The foreshadowing in this film is off the hook. Extremely well done. There is so much ambiguity beyond the superficial presentation … visible in colour hunting, the actors performances etc.
His lawyer is good and the insanity defence would’ve worked. It’s clear how impactful her approach is in the jury.
Gaga uses the media to usurp his lawyer … it’s her coup de grace. She’s speaking to Joker the whole time.
I know what it’s like to love somebody. But you can’t trust a word she says.
Like a conversation between a parent and a child because that’s exactly how he views love … in a childish way.
“Now look who is making it all about themselves.”
“I just wanted you to like me” = I lied to you because I love you so much.
She’s the villain of the film, and the whole plot for her is about grooming him first and then driving him away from his lawyer — the one person in the world who actually has his best interests at heart.
The lawyer is interesting because she doesn’t want to know the real Arthur. She is invested so much in the idea that he has a split personality, that she forces it upon him. She doesn’t love or see him, but she does at least have his interests in her mind. No one else does.
Arthur agrees with his old neighbour when she says that if she had called the police when she first felt he was dangerous, then those people wouldn’t have been killed. It rattles him because … he is always unseen. It’s the painful story of his life. No one ever does what they should towards him.
When his neighbour speaks about his mother, joker starts remembering how his mother’s lack of appreciation for his dreams has impacted his lire.
He can’t stand the pain of what is coming up in the trial; so he welcomes back to Joker to escape. Which is exactly what his mother said he does.
After he becomes joker, Gaga easily manages a private visit with him. Indicating that … perhaps she could have always done so, had she wanted? Had his lawyer preventing her from doing so?
There is a lot of ambiguity about her intentions.
His inappropriate behaviour is like how a child’s naughty behaviour is learned + encouraged by peers. Very juvenile and mirrors what happened to me and many children in school.
He’s properly heartbroken that puddles didn’t see Jokers television appearance. His old friend.
Everyone only sees certain parts of Arthur’s personality — they relate to only one part and hate or ignore the others.
You are tugging at my heartstrings Gary
You were the only one that was nice to me… he realises the same is true of him.
It’s interesting how much more effort she puts into building the joker myth when it is most at danger — she probably recognises how shaken he was by the Gary interview. She recognises how fragile her control is on him.
When the guards are about to rape him, he tells them jokes — not to provoke them, but as a fawning défense. He thinks if he tells them a joke, they will be nice to him. He jokes about them looking like they’re about to rape him. He knows what is coming.
Dropping the joker is a heroic thing to do.
But had things held up a bit longer — not been raped by the guards — he could’ve kept up the joker act and gotten away with it.
“I just want to start a new life” — that’s what it’s always been about.
He didn’t choose the heroic road, he was just too shattered to keep up Joker. He didn’t sacrifice himself, so much as give up.
His voice mail prevents her from killing herself. Folié à deux. She is in it for life with Joker. She doesn’t love him, but she is major committed to who she wants him to be.
His tendency to laugh when confronted to its pain is an interesting metaphoric parallel to the clown make up. A happy face disguise hiding a frown.
His dreams, in which he imagines gags shooting himself in the stomach. Or killing himself. He knows it’ll be both of them that kill him. In bjs gut, but his mind does not want to accept it.
He is such a people pleaser !!!!
(No wonder I relate to him)
Beginning foreshadows the plot so well. The shaving scene, he is so vulnerable — completely at the mercy of their good graces. He doesn’t just want the guards to like him, he needs it. He feels emotionally hurt whenever there is a moment in which he realises they don’t like him.
When he escapes from court house, his make up is there, but barely. Visual metaphor … there is still a chance he will reassume the joker — if she will be on his side.
But she won’t.
Folie à deux.
If she’s not in it anymore, he dies.
“I cannot live without you.”
The movie is full of questions about agency. To what extent Arthur actually has any agency over his own life and decisions.
How when he is stabbed, he flashes back to the fantasy he had about her killing him — because that’s how he feels has happened — and he is singing about how much he loves her and she is touched by it because she she’s how beautiful his feelings for her are.
That’s what he still wants most if all in life as he dies — to be seen and loved, even by someone who has killed him.
He people pleases for two reasons:
1. Because he wants people to give him approval
2. As a défense against dangerous people
Usually he is doing both, but sometimes it is just one.